[music] >> In a video posted to his YouTube channel on September 30th, 2024, Brandon Hopkins documented a dispute that took place at the Berrien County Youth Fairgrounds in Berrien Springs, Michigan between himself and Lisa Crowder, the regional chairperson of the Michigan Interscholastic Horsemanship Association over where his service dog was permitted on the fairgrounds. Ms. Crowder asked Mr. Hopkins to walk away and then called the police. An officer James Weiss of the Berrien Springs or Oronoko Township police responded. The interaction that followed was captured on Mr. Hopkins' camera as Officer Weiss was not wearing a body camera. >> Hello. >> Hello, sir. >> How's it going? >> Good. >> Ms. Crowder, regional chair. >> Hi, Jim. >> Jim. I'd like to have this gentleman >> Okay. What's going on? >> He's arguing with me. He wanted to discuss his service dog. I told him I didn't need to speak to him, to step away from me. I told him his service dog needed to be back in the camping area. He's arguing arguing with me. He's refusing to leave. I've asked him numerous times to walk away. >> Hi, Brandon. How are you doing today? >> And he absolutely refuses to walk away from the conversation. I told him back away. I shut the door. The door sticks. It slammed. So, I'm being disruptive and unruly because I've asked him to walk away from me. I have the right to have him removed from my my show. >> Okay. >> I've asked him repeatedly to walk away and leave. He refuses to. I would like to see him removed. >> Yeah, I'll talk to him. >> Hello. >> How's it going, officer? >> Are you Brandon? >> Yes, sir. >> Do you have any ID on you? >> Uh I I do, actually, yeah. >> Can I see that, please? >> But my name is Brandon Hopkins, and the reason why we're having this conversation is literally just because I came up and >> Well, look, look. Can Can I see your ID? >> I'd rather not give you my ID. I haven't broken any laws. >> I'm not saying you broke any laws. I just want to identify you. >> Yeah, I mean, I have I'm telling you I'm Brandon. My name is Brandon. >> Okay. >> And I haven't broken any laws, so therefore I wouldn't want to give you my ID, if that's okay. >> I'm just confused as to why not. >> I'm not I'm I'm not I wasn't disorderly. She was the one who called you. I literally came up to have a have a conversation. I was talking to him and he just slammed the door and came over here. He said she was calling you guys, so I didn't know >> What's your middle name? What's your middle name? >> My name My name My middle name I'm not going to give you my name. She called you and told you who I was. >> What's your date of birth? >> I'm not I'm I'm not going to give you my information. Okay, I'd like to I'd like to not >> Come on, Winston. What's your date of birth? I don't understand. >> Why would I give you my date of birth? I don't have my >> Because I need to I need to document you. >> It's a violation of my fourth amendment >> It is not a violation of your I'm not saying you broke any laws. >> I am asking you to give me your information. I'd like to be secure in my person. >> Okay, are you refusing to identify yourself? >> Well, yeah. I'm not I haven't broken any laws. >> So, they have asked you to leave. Okay. If you refuse to leave, then you are trespassing. >> They would have to trespass me and I would have to be given an opportunity to do that. That's how trespass laws work. So, if you want >> What's your status? Can you start walking to You want to You want to ask him if I'm being trespassed? >> She already said she wants you to leave. >> Well, no. She wanted me to leave She said she didn't tell me to leave the property leave this place. She just wanted me to leave the office. >> You want him gone, right? >> not correct? Is Is isn't that correct, Tommy? You wanted me to leave the office, not the property. >> Originally, she asked you to leave away from the office. >> Well, that's what I was That's my under my understanding. So, if I'm being tres- Well, you know, if I'm being If I'm And that's why is because I was waiting for the officer. I'm sorry, sir. >> You're assaulting me? >> No, I don't want you putting your hands next to my car. I didn't I didn't I didn't >> He refused to to walk away >> I didn't touch you. >> from from my booth. >> But >> He refused to walk away and I told him I will have you removed from my grounds. If you don't walk away, I will call the police and have you removed. >> want you want me to say you want me trespassed? Is that correct? You want me trespassed? >> I I don't want you trespassed. I want you removed off my grounds. Nobody said you're trespassed. >> You can't remove me like that. >> argumentative. This he does. He just loves to do this. >> So, here's here's the deal. >> Take him out. >> If you want him gone, all right, we would have to formally trespass him. Is that what we want to do? >> That's up to you, Brandon. You have a choice. >> I have a choice about what? You're telling me to >> Leave peacefully or we can arrest you for trespassing. >> Well, no. No, sir. She can ask me if if I'm trespassed, then I will I will >> You can leave peacefully or we can arrest you for trespassing. >> But they have to trespass They have to trespass me though. >> They can Yes, they do and they can >> So, am I being trespassed? >> If you don't walk away >> No, that's not how it works. You have to trespass me. Then I have to be given an opportunity to leave. You have to keep your hands to yourself. Well, could you you you also Isn't that correct, officer? I have to be trespassed and then I have to be given an opportunity to leave. >> being told to leave Okay, at this point I can arrest you for disorderly conduct. I can arrest you for trespassing. >> Well, I'm not being disorderly. I I will gladly leave the this area. >> Yeah, it's time to leave. Let's go. >> Okay. >> All right, leave the fairgrounds. >> Can I get your name and your badge number, please? >> My name is Officer Wiss, WYS. That's my badge number is 109. >> Okay, thank you. Thank you for for your professionalism, sir. Well, you guys have a good day. >> the same for you. >> Well, I I don't think I've ever been not professional. >> I disagree. >> Well, why would you say that? >> Because you're instigating. >> I'm not instigating anything. >> Yes, you are. Now, it's time to leave. Let's go. >> Yeah, I said I was going to leave. >> Then let's go. Let's not talk about it anymore. >> I have to be given an opportunity You don't want me to use my free speech. To leave To leave this place? I can't use my free speech? >> Go on. >> Hm? I'm leaving. >> All right. >> Yeah. Officer Swiss. What a good guy. A public servant serving the public. >> After Officer Weiss arrives, he tells Mr. Hopkins that because Ms. Crowder has asked him to leave, his refusal to do so amounts to trespassing. And he eventually tells Mr. Hopkins that he can leave on his own or be arrested. Under section 750.552 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, an individual can commit trespassing by remaining on someone else's property without lawful authority after being notified to depart by the owner or occupant of the property or the agent of the owner or occupant. Now, the footage does not conclusively establish whether Ms. Crowder held any of those roles with respect to the grounds. If she was an owner, occupant, or the agent of an owner or occupant, then she had the authority to require Mr. Hopkins to leave the property, and his refusal to do so would support a trespass. However, if she lacked that authority or directed him only to leave the office rather than the grounds, the necessary elements for criminal trespassing would not be present. Now, although Ms. Crowder was not required to use the word trespassed, she did need to direct Mr. Hopkins to leave the property, not merely to step away from the office before his remaining could constitute trespassing. The only unambiguous instruction to leave the entire grounds came when Mr. Hopkins was told to leave or be arrested, and he left rather than remaining. A court would therefore likely conclude that Mr. Hopkins did not commit trespassing. >> I don't I don't answer questions. I like to exercise >> Is that why you're refusing to cooperate? >> I'd like to exercise I'm I'm cooperating. I'm walking to my car. I'm leaving. That's exactly what you told me to do. >> What are you doing right now, exactly? >> Well, like I said earlier >> to exercise my Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, if that's okay. >> You're not being charged with a crime. >> Huh? >> You're not being charged with a crime. >> Well, exactly. So, why would you want to make me insecure in my How is this paper, property, effects, and things? Why would you want to make me insecure in my persons and violate my Fourth Amendment right? I'm leaving this place. That's what you told me to do, right? >> Hang on just a sec. Can you advise if you signal 30? Sorry, I got a lot of background. Didn't hear that. All right. >> I'm I'm curious in why you're further harassing me. >> Well, because I needed to determine whether or not uh you were who I thought you were. Because there is an individual with your name who was uh involved with uh I believe it was St. Joe Police. >> Mhm. >> And there's possibly pending charges. >> Mhm. >> So, I need to determine whether or not you had any warrants out for your arrest. >> Well, I'd like to not further your investigation. >> Well, that can You can be charged with obstructing justice at that point. >> Well, obstruction is a physical act. >> It's not. >> That's It actually is. >> So >> By law >> At this >> It's obstruction. >> At this point, all right? Unless you're going to give me ID to confirm this >> I'm not going to give you make You're making me insecure in my house, paper, property, effects, and things. If you violate my Fourth Amendment right, I'm going to sue you >> I'm asking you to willingly give me your ID. >> broken any laws. Is that right? >> forcing you to do that. >> I've not broken any laws. Is that right? >> What does that have to do with me asking you to give you ID? >> Because you don't have to have articulable reasonable suspicion to gain my ID. >> No, I don't. I'm asking you to give it over. >> You have to have >> To willingly identify yourself. That's what I'm asking. >> Yeah, you may ask You're ask You're You're trying to violate my Fourth Amendment right. >> I'm not trying to violate any rights. If I was trying to violate your rights, I'd be doing it by force. My supervisor isn't working today. >> Okay. >> I'm the only officer. I'm in charge. >> should get a supervisor before you make a mistake. >> I don't have a supervisor working right now. I am the supervisor. >> highly suggest you go above yourself before you make a mistake because you walked over here to harass me and ask me to gain my ID. I've not broken any laws. I've not even been trespassed from this >> After Mr. Hopkins began walking to his vehicle to leave, Officer Weiss approached him again and asked a second time for his identification, which Mr. Hopkins declined to provide. Michigan does not have a so-called stop and identify statute requiring individuals to identify themselves to police when they are lawfully detained. Nonetheless, Section 750.479 of the Michigan Compiled Laws makes it an offense to knowingly obstruct an officer in the discharge of their duties and defines the term obstruction as specifically including a knowing failure to comply with a lawful command. In the 2020 case of Barrera v. City of Mount Pleasant, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan noted that some courts have interpreted the statute as authorizing convictions against individuals who refused to identify themselves during a lawful stop. However, in order for a detention to be lawful and trigger the duty to identify, it must be based on reasonable articulable suspicion of criminal activity. Here, it does not appear that reasonable suspicion existed based on Mr. Hopkins' interaction with Ms. Crowder. A court could potentially conclude that Officer Weiss's assertion that by Mr. Hopkins' name was possibly facing charges from another police department and that supplied sufficient cause for a lawful detention. Though, based on Officer Weiss's explanation, even that doesn't seem likely. Regardless, if, as Officer Weiss asserted, he was merely asking for identification and not demanding it, there would be no basis for a criminal charge for Mr. Hopkins' refusal, nor would the Fourth Amendment be implicated by Officer Weiss's request, as the Supreme Court held in the 1984 case of Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Delgado that a mere request for identification does not by itself constitute a Fourth Amendment seizure. Accordingly, the lawfulness of any demand to identify depended on whether Officer Wise had reasonable suspicion to detain Mr. Hopkins. And absent a lawful detention or a command that he was obligated to obey, Mr. Hopkins' refusal to identify himself was not a crime. >> You threatened me with arrest if I didn't leave, which is a violation of my rights in general. That is assault, sir. You have a gun and a badge. Maybe the badge, but that gun, that's an assault. You have no legal and lawful reason to tell me to leave this >> They didn't >> So, I can tell you right now that if I if I if I use my words in a threatening manner, that's assault. If I touch you, that's battery. That's assault and battery. So, obviously, you need to learn the law. >> point, you've agreed to leave. I suggest you do that. >> Well, I suggest you to stop harassing me further. So, >> Get in your car and let's go. >> An armed gunman. You you you actually have no legal legal and lawful authority to even make me leave at this point. You understand >> in your car and go. >> You understand that? >> not make this any worse than it needs to be. >> Well, you I would highly suggest you not make it any worse for yourself because this is documented on video. >> I understand. >> We're having a conversation. I wish you had a body camera because you should. You have a spot for it to hold yourself legally accountable for what you're doing right now. >> Yep. >> Because if you violate my rights and take me to jail, I'm going to sue you. >> I understand that and that's your right. My body camera is charging right now. >> suggest you walk away, sir, because you have no legal and lawful authority to make me do anything at the moment. >> I'm not trying to make you do anything. >> You have no ARS. You have no articulable reasonable suspicion to do anything to me. What you're saying to me is unlawful in what you're doing. I've not I've not broken the law. I've not been disorderly. I've not done anything wrong here. You're coming and harassing me. You walked >> Are you leaving or not? >> over 100 yards to come here and harass me and try to gain my information. >> I said I was going to leave. You are hindering that ability for me to do so. >> anything. I've not physically >> here like a tyrant. >> It's Are you leaving or not? Or do you want to keep talking? >> Do you have legal and lawful authority to even make me leave? >> I'm not asking me talking about me Can you leave? I'm asking you if you leave or >> trying to exercise your authority and usurp authority over me, a free man. >> was the case, but you're not nearly as impressed as you think you are. >> You threatened me with arrest over there for for disorderly when I've not been disorderly. But I've not been disorderly. You're You're assaulting my person because you have no legal and lawful authority. >> Why are you standing here? >> Are you leaving or not? Yes or no? >> How are you serving the public right now? >> Are you leaving? Yes or no? >> I told you that I was going to leave, but I don't have But I don't have to leave. >> Let's go. Sir. >> No, you wanted to come have this conversation with me. I don't have to leave this way. >> No, I'm bored of this conversation because you're not nearly as cool or smart as you think you are. >> understand I want you to know as a public servant that works for me. I don't work for you. >> No, I work for the people of this area and state. >> I am the people, right? I am I am the people. No, you work for the people. You swore an oath to the US Constitution that therefore protect my rights. You serve the public by protecting individual rights. >> by the people >> You're right now trying to come over here and harass me to gain my to gain my property, my papers. >> I'm not disrupting anything. There is nobody around here. There is absolutely nobody around here. >> So, are you ready to go? >> You are disrupting my day by harassing me and coming over here. Yes, sir. Thank you. >> That's it. If you continue to bother the staff at the fair, I will arrest you. >> I I'm not I Sir, I'm just I have never bothered him at all. I was trying to have a a communication with him. She got upset, slammed the door. God bless you, sir. Have a great day. >> Mr. Hopkins argues that Officer Weiss's threat to arrest him for disorderly conduct constituted an assault on his person. Section 750.167 of the Michigan Compiled Laws identifies specific categories of disorderly persons, such as someone intoxicated in public who endangers others or causes a disturbance, someone engaged in indecent or obscene conduct, and someone jostling or roughly crowding others in a public space. None of the categories of so-called disorderly persons described soberly arguing with an officer or declining to walk away on command. Accordingly, it is likely that a court would conclude that Officer Weiss did not have the probable cause necessary to lawfully arrest Mr. Hopkins for disorderly conduct. Now, as for the assertion that the threatened arrest was an assault, the Supreme Court of Michigan explained in the 1979 case of People v. Johnson that it constitutes simple criminal assault who engage in an unlawful act that places another in reasonable apprehension of receiving an immediate battery, which is a forceful, violent, or offensive touching of an individual or something closely connected with them. Now, while the threat to conduct an illegal arrest could fall under the scope of this statute, courts more consistently review unlawful arrest as a Fourth Amendment violation rather than a criminal infraction. It is well-established in Supreme Court precedent that in order for a warrantless arrest to be reasonable, an officer must have probable cause to believe that the suspect committed a crime. Therefore, a court would likely find that Officer Weiss violated the Fourth Amendment if he were to carry out his threat to arrest Mr. Hopkins for disorderly conduct. >> Hello, Sergeant Teed of the Alpine >> Mr. Teed, uh my name is Brandon Hopkins. I ran into an Officer Whisk, uh he came out uh Saturday and um I encountered him Saturday, and I just wanted to speak to you a little bit about it. I Is it your guys's policy to have your body cams worn and and recording at all times when you're on duty? >> Uh we have a policy but I'm not sure. >> I just like to uh advise you that the phone call's being recorded. Um and you said it is your policy? >> We have a policy covering body cams but I'm not going to go into the specifics about it. >> Okay. >> You can probably FOIA you can FOIA it if you want to. >> Well, then that's the problem is that that's the problem is he came in um they wanted to There's a There's a lady that was being irate at the fairgrounds. I stood there and waited for the officer. Um he had no articulable reasonable suspicion of a crime in order to gain any authority over me. Um he he intimidated me, made me leave the um fairgrounds. I recorded everything. I got it all on on video. Um and and he didn't have his body cam on and I'm not sure exactly why he wouldn't be wearing his body camera. He said it was charging but I'm not sure why he wouldn't have it charged for your duty um to hold yourself accountable. But uh you know, I I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't break any laws and he still continued to harass me, uh further walked out to my vehicle um and and and trying to intimidate me to leave leave the uh the area. >> Okay. Well, I mean like I said, I really can't comment on something I don't know anything about. >> Well, is there any anybody that I could talk to above you that I could come and I can show them the footage because I'm I'm I'm going to make it public. I mean, I've already made it public. What he What he did was objectively wrong. And I just want to I just want to And I'm not doing it to uh humiliate you guys or >> What's your outcome? I mean, what are you looking for? >> Well, >> Were you arrested or something? >> Well, no. He but he did He did want to arrest me. He threatened me with arrest, which is an assault on my persons. You can't go around threatening people with arrest. >> me. I was like, you might need to find a civil attorney then. >> Well, >> He thought he was going to arrest you. >> That's not That's not exactly what I'd like to do. I'd just like to know I'd just like him to know and have a little bit of communication and conversation with him and let him know that that's not okay to do. And especially if he's going to be on duty, he should be wearing his body cam so he you know, the the people can hold him accountable. >> Well, >> I'm not I'm not looking I'm not looking to um press charges necessarily on him. I just I I would like him to know what he's doing is incorrect. That way the next you know, the next person he encounters, he can treat them appropriately. He doesn't even know who he's working for. >> All right. Well, if you'd like, you can come up and get We have a citizen's complaint form you can fill out and >> Well, can I Can I just He I asked him who I I told him that he works for me. I don't work for him. And he said that I work for the people of Berrien Springs. Well, sir, that's that's incorrect. You you you swore an oath to the US Constitution to uphold individual rights, to serve the public by protecting individual rights. That's who you work for. You work for the people. Like this guy is is is out of line. >> Okay. We can put down your thoughts and concerns in the in the complaint and they'll look at it, okay? >> Yeah, is it What was your name again? >> Sergeant Teed. >> Sergeant Teed? Is Is there somebody there like a chief or a sheriff or whoever I got to talk to um to come and have a communicate conversation and show them the video and what's going on just so we could get it corrected? Like I said, I'm not I'm not I'm not wishing to um >> Well, that's why that's why you fill out the citizen complaint form and we look at it, and then we we decide if any action needs to be taken. So, we don't really need to talk to you about it. >> Well, you guys wouldn't Well, the thing is is you wouldn't know what >> fair that didn't want you there. >> I I have everything on video. That's the thing. He doesn't have He didn't have his body cam running. So, there's no proof >> That's all fine and dandy. >> You guys wouldn't be able to know. >> Well, I've instructed you in what you need to do, okay? >> Okay. That's what I'll do. >> All right. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Following the encounter, Mr. Hopkins called the Berrien Springs Police Department to speak about Officer Wise's conduct, raising both the absence of body camera footage and his concerns regarding the threat of arrest. The sergeant that he spoke to, Sergeant Teed, declined to discuss the matter over the phone and instructed Mr. Hopkins to come to the station and file a citizen complaint. Mr. Hopkins went to the Berrien Springs Police Department and asked to speak with the chief. >> Okay. Chief Talbert is in the middle of a meeting. >> Okay. >> Is there something I can help you with, or >> Do you know how long he's going to be? >> He doesn't know. >> Or when his availability would be tomorrow? >> He's at a conference tomorrow and Wednesday. >> Okay. Um I guess my question is, maybe you could answer it, and then and you know, if you don't want to, that's okay. So, I was encountered by an officer at the Berrien County Youth Fair Saturday. It was like 10:45 a.m. And like I said, I don't know, you know, you don't want to get involved, that's okay. Um but he came out on his call, and he didn't have his body camera on. And he actually took it off. And then he was threatening me with arrest if I didn't leave the fair. Which is an assault on my person because he had no reason to threaten me with arrest because he had no legal and lawful authority over me. But my problem with it is is that if you don't have body camera on, how are we to hold them accountable? >> So, what are you looking for? What are you looking to do? >> I wanted to talk to the man in charge. >> Okay. Well, >> to have a conversation because they told me I talked to the sergeant earlier today and he told me to get an officer complaint form. >> Oh, I can get you that. >> listen, we both we all know where that goes, right? Like in the trash. You all you guys investigate yourselves. You're not going to to do anything with it. So, if we could just have a conversation about it and hope that it corrects >> Okay. >> the behavior. >> Um >> Right? >> Can I get your number and um just when he's available he can give you a call? >> How about I give you Can I Can I just call him? When is his uh meeting over, do you know? >> Uh he didn't know. >> Okay. >> And like I said, he's at a conference >> [clears throat and cough] >> tomorrow and Wednesday. So, Thursday would be first available. >> I tell you what, why don't you give me a pen and paper? >> Okay. >> And I'll I'll give you the video because I took video of everything. >> Okay. >> That that my encounter with him because he also harassed me further when I said when I agreed to leave even though I didn't have to. But I just wanted to diffuse the situation because he was looking for a reason to take me to jail. And he walked a hundred yards to come up to me and harass me further to try to try to gain my papers even though I already refused to give them to him once. So, I don't know if you got if he would like to watch the video just to see. Um >> [clears throat] >> you know, and we could kind of go from there because I think that it's probably privy to the conversation. >> Okay. >> If you just watch the video. >> Let me get you Um let's see. All right, what did you say your name was? >> It's Brandon Hopkins. >> Uh just b r a n d o n e n? >> e n >> Hopkins >> Mhm. >> And >> you put those together, you can go to YouTube. And it's on YouTube. But I think that he should >> word or hyphenated? >> It's one word. >> Okay. >> But I just think that he should understand what was going on in the in the conversation that took place. And listen, I don't hate you guys. I just want this to be better for my kids and you know, our grandkids and in hopes that they're just doing the right thing and doing doing their job and upholding rights, right? >> That's right. >> it's >> Um do you want to leave a telephone number in case there's any questions for you? >> And I'm just recording just for accountability because if I didn't Yeah, if I didn't Saturday, he'd take me to jail. It's his word against mine. There's no And [clears throat] we all know that they're in a gang and we ain't in it. So, and if it went to court, they're going to believe the officer. So, if I wasn't recording, >> Can we even eat the girl anymore then? >> Okay. >> But I love the people in this place. >> Good. I'm glad. >> And I'm kind of And I'm talking about in Berrien County and Michigan in general. Well, I guess the whole world, right? And I just want it to be better. So, if you could give me a call and we could have a conversation after he checks those out, I would greatly appreciate it. >> on the message to him so he sees that at this meeting. >> God bless you, man. >> At the station, Mr. Hopkins was told that the chief was unavailable until later in the week. And he left his contact information and a reference to his YouTube video so that the chief could review the encounter and call him back. As of the date of writing this episode, the final outcome of Mr. Hopkins's complaint is unknown. Overall, Officer Weiss gets an F for threatening arrest on grounds that he never substantiated, continuing to pursue Mr. Hopkins for identification as he tried to leave, and handling the entire encounter without an active body camera. Officer Weiss told Mr. Hopkins that he was trespassing because Ms. Crowder wanted him gone, but he never confirmed that Ms. Crowder had the authority to exclude him from the grounds, or whether there was any validity to Mr. Hopkins' reasonable concerns about the prohibition of his service dog. He then raised the possibility of a disorderly conduct arrest, even though nothing in Mr. Hopkins' calm questioning fit any recognized form of disorderly conduct. Moving between these justifications without securing a lawful basis for either potential charge, that treats the threat of arrest as a tool of persuasion, rather than a response to an actual offense. Once Mr. Hopkins began walking to his vehicle, Officer White followed to try to get his identification again, despite the fact that Mr. Hopkins had complied with the request to leave. And then finally, whatever the department's policy required, the absence of body camera footage from Officer White's vantage point left his version of events without the objective documentation that body cameras exist to supply, particularly in an encounter that turned almost entirely on what was said. This interaction highlights how readily the threat of arrest can substitute for genuine legal authority, and how the absence of a body camera removes the record that would otherwise allow that authority to be tested. Mr. Hopkins gets an A- minus for maintaining a calm and composed demeanor throughout an encounter in which he was repeatedly threatened with jail for exercising his rights without giving Officer White any lawful reason to escalate, and for pursuing his complaint through proper channels rather than confrontation. His composure is the most striking part of his conduct. Even as Officer White raised the prospect of arrest, Mr. Hopkins kept his voice measured, and he never became physically confrontational. And because an individual's calm conduct gives an officer no safety concern to point to, and no disturbance to act on, his demeanor denied Officer White any behavior-based justification for the threats that he made. And his handling of his rights was nearly as strong. He gave his name, he declined to surrender identification that he was under no obligation to produce, he recorded the encounter as he was entitled to do, and ultimately left in order to diffuse the situation rather than to concede that he was required to. Several of the legal labels that he reached for were imprecise, but his general grasp of his rights was sound, and it guided conduct that never crossed into obstruction or resistance. His decision to take the matter to the department afterward reinforces the point as he sought accountability through a citizen complaint instead of escalating on scene. This interaction highlights how a calm demeanor and a working understanding of one's rights, even when voiced imperfectly, can deny an officer any legitimate reason to escalate and keep a tense encounter from hardening into an arrest. Let us know if there's an interaction or legal topic that you would like us to discuss in the comments below. Thank you for watching, and don't forget to check out Audit the Court if you're interested in exploring the legal nuance beyond the body cam. >> [music]