So, this this was So, you had been evicted or something. You were living You probably thought the mayor of America sent you a rescue. Yeah, so so this sort of heated up. I had lived there for like 2 weeks. I didn't even have furniture yet. And um >> [clears throat] >> and um I think the tipping point for my neighbor was that we had a bunch of flooding one year and I rescued a dog out of the water. And this dog was really cold and sick and and I didn't know what was wrong with the dog and it kept throwing up. And and and it turned out that the dog had parvo and they had to put it down. And and so this happens and my neighbor this lady across the hall from me was like super germaphobe. So, I didn't know at the time. You know, you learn things as time goes by. Well, um >> [clears throat] >> what what kicked off this uh this issue with them was I think ultimately the parvo dog and that was as much as she could bear. So, she comes over to my apartment one morning and bangs on the door and I open the door. It's a Saturday morning and and her apartment door is wide open and >> [clears throat] >> uh it's a fourplex. So, it's two downstairs, two upstairs with a center staircase uh with the the mezzanine level, if you will, is is the laundry room. And this is a brick building. >> [laughter] >> Keep that in mind. And she says, "What's the deal with you going around slamming doors?" And I'm like, uh "Not slamming any doors." And he from the couch says, "Yes, you are. You slammed your door so hard it knocked pictures off of our wall." And I immediately like assess the physics of this situation. It's like load-bearing wall, load-bearing wall, load-bearing wall, brick wall. Um obviously, if I could impart enough energy into my door to knock pictures off of their wall, then my door would have shattered. Right? So, I just look at this and I realize this is like a no-win situation and I said, "I'm sorry, but your inability to secure your valuables to your wall is not my concern." And I closed the door. So, then the landlord comes by. Knock knock knock. "Eric, it's Larry. We need to talk." This with his what East Coast accent. And and I cracked the door open and I'm like, "Uh we can talk out there." "No, we'll talk in there." And he shoved me into my apartment. "Oh, no no no no, that's my space." "That's my space." And remember I just spent 3 years living on the street. Right next to my door with my lock, right? I wanted that lock was my axe. And he kept pushing me in the door and he put his foot in the door and held it in there. Wears Wears sandals and he's pushing me and I'm pushing him. I said, "Larry, you better get your leg out of my door I'm going to break it off." And he wouldn't do it. He kept trying to shove me in there and I picked that axe up and I smashed his foot with the blunt end. And there was a little trail of blood, a bloodcurdling scream, and the door suddenly snapped shut. So, I believe my action was effective. And I'm pretty sure that he will remember me every time the weather gets cold for the rest of his life. But uh then he crinkles this piece of paper under the door. It's a handwritten eviction notice. "I thought we could work this out, but it's not going to work. You're out of here." And I picked this thing up and I read it. It's talking about cockroaches and sanitation violations and >> [laughter] >> I'm like, "What is this?" And I said, "Larry, I'm hanging out the rest of Larry, what is this? This is ridiculous." And he goes, "You're You're out of here. You need to move." And I'm like, "Larry, this isn't going to work. I might just be a little bit more legally astute than you think I am." "I've been doing this for 35 years. I'm pretty sure I've got my bases covered." I said, "Okay, well I'm just telling you you're going to earn this eviction." Well, a few weeks later I got another eviction notice and this eviction notice was written by an attorney firm. And he told me he says, "I'll do whatever it takes to get you out of here." Okay, so um he didn't follow the law on the eviction, so that was invalid. And then the next one was an attorney firm that wrote it. And it listed dates of violation that actually predated me even having a lease. So, I knew when he said, "I'll do whatever it takes to get you out of here." that that meant he would also lie. Formally. But let me ask you a question. This is your first apartment from the after being homeless. For Yeah, yeah. How did this affect you personally to have this kind of you know people bugging the hell out of you when you just your first time you have your own home? I I had way more security on the streets. Really? Yeah, I rented a yard behind the Purina plant. This woman had did metal scrapping her whole life and I rented a portion of her yard and I lived there for 2 years. I was very comfortable there. Nobody bothered me. It was very quiet. It's It's the only place I've ever felt homesick in my life. I miss it a lot. It was nice. And it was garbage? Uh it was a yard full of trash and scrap metal and junk and it was quiet and nobody bothered me. It was mine. And but she died of an aneurysm. That's why I ended up in housing with the VA. And and [clears throat] then you lived outside? Yeah. You had stuff? Uh the first year I sort of had a makeshift shelter that I made. Um and then the next year I actually had a camper that I put up on stilts in there. Like a the kind of campers that go in the back of a truck, except I didn't have the the truck part. I just had the camper. Yeah. I told you Rusty and I we've been through a lot. And and and you were okay with being living That was fine? I was comfortable there. I was very comfortable there. Um there Denver is very generous to people that dumpster dive. I had everything I needed out of it. I had running water. My own running water. I I had sanitation. I had heat. I had electricity. I was pretty comfortable there. If If Gayla If If uh Gayla hadn't died, I'd probably still be there. And you didn't never felt like I wanted my own house or anything. You just probably thought it was impossible at the time? I suppose You know, when when you're out on the streets, your every every day every minute of every day is uh how do I survive the next day? One of the things too, see, you don't know Denver very well. So, I I would say that this area over by the Purina plant is the easiest place in the world to find, but the hardest place in the world to get to. There are major rail yards that run through there. There's several major highways that go through there. And so it's in this little spot that you really have to know how to get back there. And so uh there was one police officer that I saw fairly regularly. I don't even know his name. He was a big blond-headed guy and he threw ball with Rusty. Threw it down the street and Rusty would run after him. And that's literally the only police contact I had. I had one person I knew that somebody was stealing scrap metal out of my yard. Um and I wanted to catch him and and so I set up a a some really irresistible brass material that I knew he wouldn't be able to resist. And I sat there with a baseball bat waiting for him. I found him. He didn't speak any English till I started smashing the headlights out of his car and then he spoke a lot of English. >> [laughter] >> But um uh but really I I was safe and I was secure there. And and uh so all I wanted, literally when I told the landlord, I said, "Listen, I don't need all that stuff to be He was redoing the kitchen. I don't need all that. I need a lock and hot water and that's it. That's all I wanted was a lock and hot water." And like I said, I paid a lot I paid a very hefty price for that hot water. And the lock was useless. It was There was no security there. I was way more secure on the street. And the police Did they bother you at all? >> Yeah. Yeah, I didn't have problems with the police when I was homeless, which is unusual because homeless people constantly have problems with the police. Then again, I was off the street, right? I was in a yard. And the people that were there, I mean it was the the trailer hops from Purina and the the just a few people in that neighborhood. They all knew me. You know, basically I'm like night security for these lots anyway and and they had my back, too. I was very comfortable over there. So, what point do you decide actively start doing I guess what some people call cop Well, first of all, do you consider yourself a cop watcher or an auditor? >> I I would Well, yeah, see, I mean, what what do words mean? What do labels mean? To me an auditor observes the the wake of activity. You You go in and you look at the books and you try and see if things match up. So, to me the the purest sense of an auditor would be a person that looks at the result of people's work and compares it to the standard. So, you know, but hey, people call them auditors. That's fine. I'm okay with that term, too. Um it depends on what I'm doing. Am I a cop watcher? Yeah, they pulled Auto over the other day with his bus for no good reason at all and I got out and started recording and it really bugged the guy out. He was really upset. He says, "You know, you can't believe everything that you that you hear in the in social media about the police. You know, we're not all bad." You know, and and Auto was like, "Well, you know, yeah." And he said, "And and and you know, um have you You personally, have you ever had a derogatory incident with the police?" And Auto was like, "I am the guy that you saw on the internet." >> [laughter] >> "Why is he recording? He's just making it worse when he does that." I am that guy. Of course I am. >> [laughter] >> That was hilarious. So, should I be a cop watcher? Absolutely. Should you be a cop watcher? Absolutely. Is there a risk to it? Absolutely. Of course you should be a cop watch um because that transparency is essential and you're not going to get it from them. Um I mean, look, we can't even get body cameras. We only get body cameras when it shows the police in a good light. And uh and so yeah, am I a protester? I'd say I'm probably more of a protester than than any of those other things. Um you know, uh uh You can observe or you can stick your finger in the cage and spin it around a little bit and see how they respond or you can look at what happens afterwards. And somewhere along that gamut I find myself on any particular day depending on what it is. And was there a moment when you said I'm going to start recording police Yeah. Can you talk about that moment like that the scene for us? Sure will. So, um so I'm still in my apartment. We've gone through several eviction iterations and I kicked his ass every time and and the judge basically told him, "Listen, Mr. Brandt needs a place to stay this winter and you're going to give it to him. So, if you don't want Mr. Branter, you need to work something out. Well, we ended up working something out as the spring came. I asked him if he'd let me out of my lease and and uh take my security deposit as the last month's rent. And he said, "Oh, absolutely. Please leave." So, I and I partially did that because the West I was getting so many reports. I'd started my protests with the sign, right? I had just started those. I did sidewalk chalk. I got arrested for sidewalk chalk. So, then >> on the sign? What was on the sign? Okay, so I started doing sidewalk chalk. The sidewalk chalk I drew was at City Hall. It was an upside-down pig with little wiggly lines on his legs. Huge, by the way, like 8 ft. I put a Westminster police badge on it, a badge with a W on it, and big tears flowing out into a big puddle underneath it, and I wrote, "Make a pig wail and you'll go to jail." And I did. >> [laughter] >> Uh the cop that arrested me just went to federal prison for raping a woman in the back of his patrol car. After the feds charged him with civil rights violation because the state gave him 90 days. So, he arrested you for a chalk? Arrested me for that chalk in particular. And a giant scales of justice bent over to one side that said, "Chalk will wash away, injustice stains to stay." And and I did all kinds of chalk all over Westminster. I went on a rampage. What was the What was the charge then? Petty vandalism. I got 90 days. In jail? Oh, yeah. >> [laughter] >> I got the same sentence for sidewalk chalk as Curtis Arganbright got for raping a woman in the back of his patrol car. >> [laughter] >> And what city was this? Westminster. Westminster. Yeah. And and so I had just discovered the magic eight letters. And I discovered that because the same cop that kept giving me trouble pissed me off one day. I I was building a float for a bicycle trailer cuz I found a bunch of chicken wire. I knew immediately what I was going to do with it. I was making a big upside-down pig, and my friend Nicole, she says, "You should make a middle finger that comes out of the butt hole that says, 'Fuck the police.'" Right? And [clears throat] uh And so >> [laughter] >> I'll tell you more about Nicole sometime if you want to, but uh she's a a great friend of mine. And uh And and she was also abused by the Westminster police because of her race. But um >> [clears throat] >> That That was a great idea, except this angle was more machinery. I could do this angle better. So, I did this angle. Uh and I just had a piece of foam core that I cut with a knife and wrote [ __ ] cops on it. I thought eight letters would be better than [ __ ] the police if you're going to be driving by it. And and uh and it was my prototype, and it was working, and Drew Smith pissed me off again one day. And so, I grabbed I snatched that damn thing off the top of my float, and I stuck it on a stick, and I walked Rusty down the street with it. I went six blocks round trip. I had a bottle of water thrown at me. I had people take pictures. I had people cheer me. I had horns honking, and I went back to the house. I'm like, "Guys Guys, I have found the magic eight letters." >> [laughter] >> What were they? [ __ ] COPS. >> [laughter] >> AND WHY WERE THOSE MAGIC? WELL, because in just six blocks, I had people cheering. I had people honking. I had people taking pictures, and I had one bottle of water thrown at me. In six blocks. It's like, "Ooh, this is [laughter] great. This will work." And so, uh that's when I made this huge sign out of Styrofoam, and I found in a dumpster behind a sign shop a bunch of sign vinyl, and I just plastered it on there as glue, and I put a spring on it with a mechanical hinge, and it went up and down. Yes? Oh, I'm so I'm sorry. I just Is it working? I won the battle of the lawn. Outstanding. So So, when I mounted it on a backpack frame, and I drove all over town on my bicycle with that sign. And um that was the first [ __ ] cops sign. And I would people would stop, and I would pull the little thing down in this the finger would go like this. >> [laughter] >> And then they took my sign, so I had to make more of them. And I would make them bigger and better every time. I put blinking lights on. >> [laughter] >> I made these huge paper mache things. Three-dimensional signs. And people loved them. Um but they're really bulky. That's why I went to flags cuz I can drop the flag and get on a bus or whatever and do a pop-up protest. And um And so this in this time, all these homeless people are coming to me, and they're complaining to me about what the Westminster police are doing to them. And one of the big complaints that I had is that they would be somewhere sleeping, and the Westminster police would roll up on them at 2:00 in the morning, and they would get on their bullhorn "Nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee And I Well, that's really shitty, right? So, um I moved out of my apartment, and I moved onto the streets of Westminster in order specifically to address this question. And if you look at my very very very first YouTube video, my very first YouTube video is the video from that. I was out there for less than 3 hours, and they did it to me. Did what? Pulled up to me while I'm sleeping and blew their horn. I had this big huge trailer, and I had all kinds of [ __ ] on it, and I had a giant [ __ ] cops sign attached to it. I had a battery. I had a little water pump. It was my little my little uh uh you know, my little homeless city for myself. And they hated me. And I I posted up right at at uh 72nd and Lowell, which is where they come down from the police department onto 72nd and go. And um and I posted up right on that corner, and they absolutely did it to me four times that night. The fourth of the the fourth time I was able to get my camera going and caught them recording me with a camera. So, they're going out with a camera blowing their bullhorn at people to wake them up in the middle of the night and then speeding off and and getting their giggles with the camera. That was my very very very first YouTube video. I'll make a note that they'll find that. They might not have seen that one. And it's I call it the Retardo Max video. That was my very first one, you know? And you know, I've been I've been watching things like like Mistaken Bacon, um which is Tom Zebra back in the day. And that was really There was nobody doing this 8 years ago except for Tom Zebra. Um basically. And and so, that's that's when I really started going after the cops. So, they they just pushed me too far, and I snapped, and I went full bore. >> [laughter] >> And and what would you say about the state of American policing? Then and now, I mean, was it Was it Was what you're doing necessary to correct the imbalance, or or are are I mean Golly. Is it personal, or is it is it general? Uh well, you mean Do they make it personal, or is it personal for me, or >> some way personally bad interactions, but it seems like it's become more than that. Like it might have been initially you had personal problems with police, but then you know, you >> It's systemic. Um I learned that it's systemic, and I and unfortunately, you're really not going to get any correction on that, right? I do years of litigation with Westminster. I kicked their ass on the sidewalk chalk question, and so I went back to do a third-year anniversary chalk in the same spot on the same day, and I got arrested for it. They prosecuted me. I went to jury trial. After you won your case, THEY THEY YEAH. YEAH. >> [laughter] >> YES, THEY DID. So I've been arrested for chalk eight times. And just for the record, that makes them very bad detectives cuz I signed my chalk every time, and I did it hundreds of times. But um So, you you basically proved American policing is beyond stupid. I think American poli- It's just Well, at the time, I had hope, right? But it over the last 8 years, I would tell you that I really honestly have very little hope for American policing. Unless more people like me stand up, unless more people like you expose these issues. We need a way more exposure than I could get. I mean, I was stunned they arrested me for sidewalk chalk. I thought I'd get a little publicity, and they would fix their problems. And absolutely, that didn't happen. And and I and do you think it's working, what you're doing? I mean, I I It's just It's I I guess that I don't have nearly as much hope as I used to have, but I have had some successes. So, maybe if a if 100 people like me have the same kinds of successes that I've had, then we might see some progress. Um I think we see a little bit of progress. Brian Loma had a trial the other day, and it's my understanding that there were several people out in front of the courthouse dis- distributing jury nullification literature that day. And um and that's something that you can do in Colorado, and in particular in that courthouse, because I occupied the courthouse for 57 days and nights. Okay, so >> [laughter] >> start